Hi Readers! I am so happy to be reading (rereading!) The Lost Memoirs of Jane Austen together with you!
Today is a discussion of CHAPTERS 7-14, so if you know anything that happens beyond those chapters, we ask that you don’t mention it here! NO spoilers, please!
*Participating in today’s discussion earns you an entry towards our Group Read Giveaway (you can earn 5 entries in all!)
Without further ado, here are some questions I thought of to get the discussion going, feel free to add your own!
1. What did you think of the twist (Mr. Ashford’s secret)? Did you see it coming?
2. There are a lot of nods to Sense and Sensibility and a bit of fiction regarding some decisions Jane Austen made while writing/revising this work. What are your thoughts on Sense and Sensibility? Do you think there are any connections with Jane Austen’s life?
3. What do you think of Mr. Ashford and the Churchills now? What do you speculate the reason is for Mr. Ashford’s engagement? Do you think the Churchills should have done more to interfere between Mr. Ashford and Jane?
~~~~~
I look forward to continuing this discussion with you Wednesday with CHAPTERS 15-20.
Today’s post is sponsored by one of our lovely donors – Janet Taylor. Check out Janet’s amazing art!
~ Looking for the Master Schedule? ~
No I didn’t see the twist coming. I liked Mr Ashford very much so I was very disappointed in him when the engagement was revealed. He treated Jane very shabbily I thought. I know the engagement wasn’t of his doing but he should have still told her.
I liked that it spurred her into action and that she began to revise her novels and tried to get ‘Susan’ back. Some of the characters are brilliant and you can see who’s who from her novels.
But really it’s coming across as quite a sad life.
I agree, Teresa. Mr. Ashford’s treatment of Jane definitely lowered my opinion of him.
Yes, I love the scene of her writing through the night bursting with inspiration and motivation!
I love seeing the comparisons to various characters. I can easily imagine her diverted by a person’s personality quirks and deciding to share those quirks with one of her characters!
Enjoying recognizing Austen’s characters in James’ illustrations of Real People from Austen’s life. But knowing how Austen died unmarried, there is a heavy
Melancholy undercurrent throughout this read for me.
Yes, knowing what we know about her not marrying foretells that this may not be a happily ever after…it is hard not to get your hopes up though!
The twist did surprise me, though it was clear there was *something* lurking in the Churchills’ odd looks. I thought it might be no more than that they *wished* for an alliance between the families. As for the connections between S&S and Jane Austen’s life, it’s notable to me that until we get to Mansfield Park, each novel features a close sisterly pair (Elinor and Marianne, Jane and Elizabeth, Catherine and Isabella). Although it’s always fun to read Austenesque fiction that makes connections with the novels, I’m a bit squeamish about making too many one-to-one connections between her fiction and her life. It seems a bit disrespectful to her art. Syrie James does have JA address this at one point (I’m sorry, that may be later than chapter 14, but saying this much doesn’t seem like a spoiler).
My affection for this tale is growing; even though I might read Jane Austen’s personality a little differently, this Jane has certainly engaged my respect and regard!
Very true, Abigail. I felt something was there with those looks too. But like you I thought they just didn’t want anything to develop between Jane and Mr. Ashford because of her lack of consequence and wealth. Great point about how many of the early novels share close sisterly bonds! I never realized that they were all in succession of each other. I think the similar situation the Dashwood ladies and Austen ladies find themselves in is very striking and it was this book that made me realize the connection. I wonder if that was something that changed between rewrites…
No worries, not a spoiler at all! There does seem to be many more connections betweens Jane Austen’s novels and life in this story. More than we find in some other stories, it is a lovely homage to her. I’m so glad your affection for the story is growing and that Jane is a character you can admire. 🙂
Knowing what we all do regarding Jane Austen’s life, AND that from the very beginning of the ‘memoir,’ and I include the ‘Editor’s Foreward;’ no, I wasn’t surprised at the reveal. Just gut wrenched. I could see from very early on at Jane’s second meeting with Mr. Ashford that we would be finding out very soon what that reveal was. The biggest foreshadowing of the actual memoir comes when Mr. Ashford explains his hasty departure from Lyme. The fact that his father, when he thought he was dying, informed his son of the problems the estate was actually in. The working out, or putting to rights his soon-to-be estate obviously involved a marriage of convenience with a neighboring family friend that would bring in the funds necessary to take care of his responsibilities. And there are hints all through their frequent meetings while the Churchills along with Mr. Ashford, visited their aunt. His references to a childhood dream lost to duty.
My thoughts about how many actual events happening to JA during her life influencing her literary works…concept to concept….character to character, are all over the place. Yes, there are similarities between this fictional account and the events that happen in S&S. But it is an artist’s license to explore those ‘what-ifs.’ Can ALL of JA’s books be straight out of her life? It’s easy to imagine some little pieces of inspiration here and there in her obvious keen observance of life around her though.
Great expression, Michelle! I think gut wrenched describes it perfectly! And great points about the foreshadowing. I admit I didn’t pick up on some of them!
I agree with you, knowing that she was such a keen observer and study of character, there are bound to be some similarities reflecting in her stories. Perhaps slightly exaggerated…in her Juvenilia we can see how she was a big fan of parodying. 🙂 I think she would have been careful to be discreet about it though.
I didn’t see the strong connection to S&S coming and Ashford being engaged like that. I didn’t think he would be the type to lead a woman on even if he was deeply in love and wanted ‘just this little time together’. I did wonder what was behind the strange looks with the other couple and now I still wonder because they were giving Ashford looks back at Lyme which was well before the engagement. Truthfully, I have no idea what is behind all this and can only speculate wildly that somehow he and the girl ended up in a situation that made him have to offer to save her reputation.
Enjoying it even if now it is very sad. But hey, it got Jane writing again and we’re all grateful for that. 🙂
Good speculation, Sophia! I like to believe there has to be some reason that forced this engagement. Great point about how the ‘looks’ began even back in Lyme. Perhaps this was a ‘peculiar’ engagement… I do think the Churchills should have said or did something though! It doesn’t appear to be a secret engagement and I can easily see Mrs. Churchill throwing it into the conversation to pointedly remind Mr. Ashford!
Glad you are enjoying the story!
Sophia, I immediately thought that the engagement was before Lyme otherwise Churchill’s looks would have been pointless…
I must not have been reading closely as I did not see the twisty coming. I’m just saddened
It is sad, isn’t it? Poor Jane to find herself so disappointed.
I saw the plot twist coming as Ashford could not tell Jane his secret easily. I was disappointed that he allowed a relationship to develop with Jane as he seemed to be a honorable man. I was surprised that he hurt Jane like that. It make me not like him as much. I am also surprised that the Churchills did not some how let Jane know that Ashford was engaged. I kept waiting for them to do something. Maria did not sound like someone who would have let that information stay secret.
As far as Jane’sexperiences affecting the plot of S&S, I like to think that Jane’s novels were part of her life experiences and part from her imagination. I can easily see part of S&S (and all her books) based on Jane’s real life, in part. I keep thinking that in the modern world we have books, tv and movies, that show us all kinds of plots and twist. In Jane’s day, there were some novels and books to get stories from but not too many. It seems to me that with all Jane’s family, friend and her own life, the stories and experiences must have been to base for the plots of her work.
I am really enjoying reading this book. I keep reading past the assigned chapters without realizing it. It is very good.
I agree Amanda, this does paint Mr. Ashford in a more disfavorable light and does seem surprising that he would hurt Jane in this way. I completely agree with you about Maria! I could see her being like Caroline Bingley and pointedly giving Jane some advice about not getting her hopes up… 😉
Very true about the sources of inspiration in Jane Austen’s life. There has to be a larger focus on the people she meets and places she visits. There is no internet or TV/movies to increase her knowledge of the world just as you said.
So thrilled to hear you are enjoying this book and reading ahead! Now that I have tomorrow’s questions all set, I plan to read ahead too! 🙂
I’ve always felt that Elinor and Marianne Elizabeth and Jane were most like how Cassandra and Jane were in real life. I definitely think there is some similarity between Jane’s lifew in her books in regards to that.
With all the nods to sense and sensibility I was getting the feeling it was going to be related to the book when it came to Mr Ashford but obviously not the happy we don’t that Elinor found with Edward.
I am getting the feeling Mr Ashford s father is going to be a combination of lady Catherine de bourgh from p and p and fanny dashwood and Mrs ferrars from sense and sensibility
Ooh I like your speculation about Mr. Ashford’s father, Patricia! Perhaps he has been the reason behind this engagement…
Very true about the similarities between the Dashwood sisters and the eldest Bennet sisters. I always think of Cassandra as a cross between Jane Bennet and Elinor Dashwood, I wonder how true that theory is!!
I didn’t see the twist coming and I’ve read the book before! Lol, not happy. Sad for Jane.
I believe when she wrote Elinor and Marianne, it was much closer to her own real life than S&S. Indeed, I believe much of the Juvenilia has some autobiographical basis. As she matured, autobiographical basis became much much less. Still, I can’t think of Elinor with out thinking of Cassandra and Marianne as a young Jane. Team Marianne!!! At recent S&S discussion, I only was the only Team Marianne fan( and token male, of course).
I think much much less of both. To sum it up in one word….Boo.
Ah! Kirk, I slightly embarrassed to admit the same! LOL! I knew how the story ended and I of course remembered feeling sad and disappointed, but I could remember the how and why!
Wow, the only Team Marianne fan!?! Wonder why she receives such little love. She shares a lot of similarities with Elizabeth Bennet…I’m sure if we asked Jane Austen she would say she was Team Marianne! 😉
Yes, very well said! Big thumbs down for them.
I immediately thought about this kind of twist when he has a sad expression while Jane is reading. Moreover his behaviour in the garden shows that something is going wrong. I had the certainty of my presumption when he talks about the friendship between his and mr Churchill’s families. I’m not surprised at all by this plot twist from the moment the author couldn’t make a happy ending for Jane Austen since all of us know about her illnesses and death as a single lady.
In this novel the connections between Jane Austen’s life and Sense and sensibility are so many but I can’t say if it is the same in real life.
I can’t blame Mr Ashford because his character was presented as a true gentleman with solid principles and I hope that him, like Edward, is only willing to do the most honorable thing. Instead I blame his friends, they could have said to Jane or Cassandra about his engagement in confidence to protect Jane from the gossips of the city. At the end I think this engagement is only one of convenience for him that admitted to have some problems with his home.
Great job picking up all the clues, Loren! But you are right, we all know the ending of the story and what happens to Jane Austen later in life. Mr. Ashford does seem honorable, and as you said maybe his reason was out of family duty and necessity. Thanks for sharing your thoughts!