Hi Readers! We are halfway through our group read and I can’t tell you how fantastic it has been to share this experience with you all!! Thank you so much for taking part!
Today is a discussion of CHAPTERS 15-20, so if you know anything that happens beyond those chapters, we ask that you don’t mention it here! NO spoilers, please!
*Participating in today’s discussion earns you an entry towards our Group Read Giveaway (you can earn 5 entries in all!)
Without further ado, here are some questions I thought of to get the discussion going, feel free to add your own!
1. Yay for Chawton Cottage and the change in circumstances for the Austen ladies! Why do you think Jane’s brother Edward offered it to the Austen ladies now and not before?
2. As we see in several parts of this story, Jane has no interest in hearing Mr. Ashford out. Do you think she is right to return his letters unopened? What would you do in her shoes?
3. What do you think of the surprise encounter at Pembroke? What about Isabella’s trip to visit Jane?
~~~~~
I look forward to continuing this discussion with you Friday with CHAPTERS 21-27.
Today’s post is sponsored by one of our lovely donors – Bingley’s Teas. Check out their fabulous Jane Austen teas!
*Reminder* We will be chatting with Syrie James HERE this Sunday @ 4:00p.m. EST
~ Looking for the Master Schedule? ~
It was such a relief when the Austen ladies finally got to live in their own home. Although, I was surprised that Mrs. Austen took to the house and it’s location and quirks so easily. That thought was based on her previous complaints. Although she can be sweet and caring sometimes, even humorous, she can come off as being somewhat of a whiner. But she IS worried about her and daughter’s future. I don’t know what to think about Edward’s offer and it’s timing. I prefer to think he just wanted the support of his mother and sister’s closeness in his grief over losing his wife.
I wanted to cry for Jane so many times, but especially when she refused Mr. Ashford’s letters. I wouldn’t have refused them. I might not read them immediately. Decisions are really hard for me to make, and I surely would’ve opened them at some point, either when I was really angry about the affair or alternately horribly heartbroken. And I WAS so heartbroken for Jane.
Oh my goodness, I absolutely thought it was going to be Maria Churchill, finally coming to inform Jane to coldly to stop pursuing Mr. Ashford!! Then when it turned out to be Isabella, I dreaded something extremely uncomfortable was about to happen. That Isabella finally showed some spark of intelligence and figured out Mr. Ashford’s interest in Jane. Then it became absurd, with the whole ‘will you read my attempts at writing’ thing. I was so mortified for Jane; the surprise arrival of the family home to Pembroke, then the surprise visit (s), and THEN that proposal. Poor Jane. ‘WHAT A DAY I’M HAVING!’
Hi Michelle. Mrs. Austen did take to the new home quickly. I’m guessing it was so hard to be economizing and moving in the last 3 years that a home that would come rent-free was so ideal they didn’t care what it looked like!
Jane seemed to make the decision immediately to refuse his letters. I wonder what they said, how much he revealed. I don’t think I would have refused the letter. My heart would have been broken into so many pieces but I would still be in love and not reject anything that was given to me from my love.
LOL! It would have been interested if it was Maria Churchill, kind of like Lady C! I’m sure Jane would have held her own!
I enjoyed the description of the cottage and shared their joy at finally having a more secure home. It seemed miserly of the brother to not offer anything before, but she did “explain” that this former tenant had just died. Still, with all his holdings, it seems absurd he would allow his mother and sisters to live in an itinerant fashion. I can only wonder if perhaps, bowing to the reticence of the times even among family members, they did not share their misery about being itinerant with him. He may have thought they enjoyed staying with family. As for the letters, I would have had a hard time not accepting and reading Mr. Ashford’s letters! My curiosity would get the best of me. But by refusing them, Jane was adhering to the proper manners of the day: accepting his letters would be wrong since they were not engaged. Jane would not be one to “set propriety at naught.” The encounter at Pembroke did not surprise me at all with so many of the characters and situations being so obviously drawn from Jane’s novels. Isabella obviously disdained Jane and I felt her visit to Jane for “literary” reasons was contrived just to mimic the scene in S&S when Edward drops by as Elinor and his fiancee are visiting. I get the whole “Jane’s real life into scenes in her future novels” thing, but the resemblances were just too simplistic for my “sensibilities.” While reading, I have been surprised at the detailed descriptions of the physical attributes of the characters in Jane’s “memoir” because she was known for leaving all that to the imagination in her novels. I did enjoy the descriptions of the homes and the countryside.
Very good points about Edward’s offer of the cottage. Perhaps he wasn’t aware or perhaps their dependent living situation was professed to be no hardship in his presence. Or perhaps since he had a family of 11 kids and adopted parents to look after, he was spreading himself a little thin.
Very true! Jane did act within the bounds of propriety by rejecting the letters and perhaps her moral compass would not let her even contemplate receiving them. I would probably have accepted them and fretted and worried over what they said a good while before reading them.
I agree about the descriptive details, it is great to be able to visualize these homes and places she has visited.
I think the house was finally offered to them because his wife had died. It was known that she and Jane did not get on and I think she was the one who stopped Edward from offering them assistance to them. Once she was dead Edward made no delay in helping them out. Also I think this is where the John/Fanny story came from in Sense and Sensibility. So Jane obviously had an idea what was going on.
Not sure about the second question. If it was me I’d be burning with curiosity to see what he had to say. I think she should have opened them, even though I was very disappointed with his treatment of her, She could have just not answered them but at least he would have had a hearing.
The Isabella visit was just weird! It wasn’t that she came to warn Jane off or anything. I don’t think she cared enough to do that. Anyone could see the writing thing was just a whim with her. Isabella’s world revolved around Isabella and I don’t think she could be bothered about anything that didn’t affect her.
The proposal of Mr Morton, (or should I say Mr Collins), didn’t make much sense to me. It’s like it was put in just to cover the Collins/Elizabeth story in P&P. It happened completely out of the blue and then was just forgotten about. Could have done without it.
I had forgotten my Jane history, Teresa. I now agree with you about the timing of the Chawton cottage. Thanks for that. I also love what you said about Isabella’s world revolving around Isabella. :/ But don’t you think that THIS Mr Morton/Mr Collins was so blinded by his social climbing that the perceived connections to the exalted realm of the nearby nobility was his downfall?
It is such a similar situation to Fanny and John Dashwood that it does make you wonder if it was more than a coincidence!
I agree with you about Isabella. I don’t think she cared enough either, she wasn’t as possessive and proud of her fiance as Lucy Steele was. Love it, Isabella’s world!
I sort’ve agree about Mr. Morton, although I think it provided a bit of humor and lightness that this story needed to balance out the disappointments and sadness.
Teresa, I think that the proposal of Mr. Morton, although a little forced, has served the author as a pretext to dismiss Jane from Pembroke…
Maybe it is like Mrs Austen said, it was Edward’s wife that didn’t let her husband offer a cottage before. But I like to think that before his wife’s death, Edward had all the affection he wanted so he never thought about his mother and sisters and now that his wife is dead he likes to surround himself with family’s affection.
Jane does the right thing returning Mr Ashford’s letters because at that time only engaged couple could share a correspondence so she tries to remain true to her principles. If I was her I would certainly opened the letter the first time since I’m a so curious creature!
I saw the encounter at Pembroke with affectionate eyes because it reminded me of the similar encounter between Lizzy and Darcy and I really appreciate the author that succeeded in using scenes so similar to the novels to tell her own. Obliviously I don’t like Isabella and I laughed so loud when she said she wanted to became a writer! I am still laughing!
But what about Mr Morton? He was so ridiculously funny!
I like what you said about Edward wanting more of his family. It is a very good explanation for his timing of offering the house to his mother.
I’m a curious creature too, Loren! I guess it is good that we don’t live in Jane Austen’s time, or else we’d both either have to break with propriety or refuse to indulge in our curiosity! 🙂
Lol! Yes still laughing about that! 🙂
Yes, Mr. Morton was a great comedic relief!
I did ponder a bit on the delayed decision about Edward giving them Chawton Cottage and I tried to remember what I’ve heard about and read before- I’ve heard that the brothers were all taking turns to help their mother and sister, I’ve heard that Edward’s wife didn’t want him to help (but I find that withholding a home a bit extreme for that unless she positively detested them which I never heard that she did). So I’m not sure, but obviously the timing of his wife’s death with the giving of the cottage seemed to not be coincidental.
As to the letter, my heart wanted her to receive it, but Jane actually acted in accordance with the propriety of her times not to take that letter. She knew they could be nothing to each other and only an understanding between them would allow her to take that letter. Plus, since she couldn’t have him, I understand not wanting to know and wounded anger probably had a part in her denying him this hearing since the letters would come back to him.
Wow, that encounter was painful. But not a surprise since the book was obviously following the P&P visit to Pemberley path at that point. I felt badly for him and for her.
Oh boy, I laughed when I realized Morton was Collins so I saw that awkward proposal coming, too.
The Lucy visit was odd to me. I couldn’t figure out Isabella’s motives whether she was just curious about the woman who interested Ashford and stirred up everyone, if she wanted to rub in her own good fortune just because, or if she really was into being a writer at the time and was amusing herself.
Still, exciting events here in this part of the book.
I agree, coincidental. I need to brush up on the research regarding Edward Austen Knight. Interesting possibilities though!
Yes, Jane’s actions are very right and proper and understandable. I’m sure Mr. Ashford was in a lot of pain himself over his situation, and then to have his letters rejected probably made it all the worse. So sad for both of them!
It was a painful encounter for both of them, although Mr. Ashford’s father and sister were surprisingly welcoming and kind. At least they didn’t make the situation worse by being haughty and rude.
Yes, it is definitely getting exciting!!
I also believe the cottage was given because Edward wanted to be closer to family in his grief. There’s nothing like having close relatives around when things become difficult. And they’re not so close that he can’t escape them if he chooses!
And oh my, Isabella, what a piece of work she is. She cares for nothing and no one but herself and will use others to advance herself any way she can. Her being am author is just an excuse to insert herself where she is not welcome in my opinion.
And as to “Mr Collins”, I enjoyed the comic relief he provided
And , I’m not a woman of that time but there’s no way I could have returned those letters unopened! If only she could have steamed then and sent them back lol
Very true, Lynn! It is a very comfortable distance and situation. I wonder how much of the year at Chawton House. Does anyone know?
Yes, Isabella is detestable! I don’t think she appreciates Mr. Ashford at all. I agree with you about Mr. Morton’s comic relief. It was the perfect time for this type of character!
Elizabeth Knight, sorry to say. There was a 15 min mini Bio on BBC Radio of her. Lady Edith spoke the role of Elizabeth Knight, who spent time wailing about Jane. Also, the Jane Austen murder mystery does the same. To be fair, Edward was land rich and cash poor. And 11 mouths to feed. And would later be sued over some of his adopted parent’s estate. He would win the case a bit later.
I do think she should read the letters. She certainly doesn’t have reply. His crimes, for me, do not raise to a level of a Wickham. Jane’s reaction almost seems like teen Jane, rather than 30 something Jane. Lol, I’d wail for a couple hrs …days…and then read it.
Very P&P… perhaps too much? Isabella’s visit is strange. It could be deleted.
I would have to agree Kirk. Too much P&P. For me anyway.
Yes!
Oh but Kirk! Isabella’s visit was perhaps just one more mortification on Jane’s visit to Darbyshire. But. If she hadn’t been there, the confrontation and explanation coming from Mr Ashford was yet again deferred. Oh the angst!
Hmmmm… although born in August, no angst for me! Interactive book of the future….for you angst, for me not so much! I like my stories like my 2nd favorite Austen female character Jane Bennet… sweet and kind.
Thanks for sharing, Kirk! I don’t think I knew about him being land rich and cash poor. I think I remember reading that his inheritance from Mr. Knight was like Mr. Darcy’s annual income 10,000 a year, but perhaps that dwindled by time he became heir. I’m so surprised to learn that there was some discontent between Elizabeth and Jane. I guess that explains why Jane never went to visit during the confinements like Cassandra did.
It did have a lot of P&P in these chapters, I am very impressed how the P&P and S&S aspects of the story are blending so well together! 🙂
I think that Edward’s wife opposed the ladies living in one of the cottages or houses. I also agree that having his sisters and mother in closer range of one of his estates would be a comfort to him after losing his wife.
It was almost painful for me when Jane sent the letters back to Ashford without reading them. I am too nosy and would have to know what he said. I guess I always hope for the best outcome.
Meeting Mr. Ashford must have been so embarrassing and so painful. I feel for both Jane and Ashford. As far as Isabella’s visit go, I’m not sure what her motive was but my first thought is that she was too self-centered to react to Jane and her reaction at seeing at Mr Ashford at Pembroke. I can’t imagine that she could be a writer. I think it was an insult to Jane to ask her to read her story, maybe not intentional but an insult just the same.
I loved the Mr. Collins/Mr. Character. He was even more self absorbed that ever.
Hi Amanda 🙂 If it was Edward’s wife not letting the ladies live in the cottage, then I am disappointed in Edward for not opposing her and doing what is right! But I guess we should be glad he did it eventually!
It probably was very hard for Jane to not know what they said and return them. Even though she was very hurt and disappointed, it may have been nice to know he loved her and was true in his heart to her. At least that’s what I think!
Yes, painful and mortifying for both! How awkward too, because some people were aware of their prior relationship and some people were not.
I love the irony of Althea being introduced to Mr. Morton as a possible wife, but that it is Jane Austen claims his interest! How lucky is Althea?!? Mr. Morton was only after Jane’s connections! LOL!
I really think Elizabeth had some influence over his family’s housing situation. I also think maybe on the side, he was looking around but he does have responsibilities. Didnt they say a previous owner passed away?
I do not know what I would have done with the letters, thrown them away or ask someone to keep them safe for me until I was ready to read them.
All I could think about with the Pembroke scene was “Pride and Prejudice reference!” and then when Mr Ashford comes to visit Jane and his fiance is there already – “Sense and Sensibility!”
I meant, in regards to edward, he was looking when he had the time but he does have a big family of his own and responsibilities.
LOL! Patricia, I loved the P&P switch S&S references. They worked really well together. 🙂 Yes, good point about the previous tenant passing away. Perhaps Edward didn’t have anything that was suitable for his mother.
I’m not sure why Edward waited so long too give his mother and sisters a better place to live, I can only imagine that he had other things to think about and didn’t think it was important for his mother to have a decent house. Quite strange but possible since he had such a large family!
Ahh, that’s a tough question! I would have opened Mr. Ashford’s letters because I’m terribly curious! Besides, I would have liked to know why he behaved like a man interested in a woman only to disappear without saying anything about his engagement. He wasn’t certainly a real gentleman towards Jane or his fiancée!
That was interesting. 🙂 I had a feeling it would happen because there were many things P&P related so I kind of expected that encounter but alas, I doubt all will end well! As for Isabella’s visit, hahaha! Sorry! But when I read that she had read ONE novel in a year I was about to faint! 😀
Very good reasoning, Maria. He also had an adopted family and perhaps his wife’s family that he shared responsibility for.
Like you, I wouldn’t been happy to not know the reason why. I would have been too curious to hear his side of the story to refuse the letter.
Yes, it was funny to hear her proudly state that she read an entire novel in one year! LOL! Jane probably didn’t know what to make of such a statement!!